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Sincerely,
Russell Keppner
TJEdRefers generally to the concepts presented in the book A Thomas Jefferson Education, written by Dr. Oliver DeMille. We also have an Introduction to Thomas Jefferson Education available elsewhere on this site..org Administrator
Primary--Conveyor belt?
I can not add anything to the discussion except my own experience. I agree with all that has been written and am encouraged by the fact that others are seeing things the same way my husband and I do.
My 16yo son, who never in his Primary years would sing, and who is described in the original post, is now singing with our Nationally awarded High School Choir, ( he has only this HS class for choir and "socialization" 'cuz it's a tradition among the church kids here) and two weeks ago sang a SOLO in Sacrament meeting (A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief) which he volunteered for. As long as teachers aren't out to BREAK these kids, it really does give them an opportunity to exercise obedience "even when it's hard".
We had our son sit with us in our Sunday school and watch us participate with questions and comments and he really enjoyed learning from that venue for a few weeks,then he wanted to go back to his own class.
Recently we had a teacher who taught him when he was 11-12 approach us and comment on what a marvelous job he has done maturing. He now teaches the 16yo class and is very surprised at the transformation. Not to say that he still doesn't have rough edges to smooth out, but I have noticed that since he has grown to be as tall as his peers, the pressure to impress is off now and he is much more confident. I say it's a stage.
Cathryn
"A popular Government, without popular information, or the means
of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or,
perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a
people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves
with the power which knowledge gives."
-- James Madison (letter to W.T. Barry, 4 August 1822)
I agree with what everyone
I agree with what everyone else has said. But also wanted add my comment. My oldest will be 13 this month. I distinctly remember that when she was 10-11, she was SO READY to be done with Primary. She's always been on the mature side intellectually and emotionally, so it was really a struggle for her to be patient with the juvenile environment of Primary. She especially wasn't very tolerant of the syrupy sweet voices the leaders used when talking to the group Primary children (both junior and senior)....she acted like it was an insult to her age and intelligence. (this was just in Primary itself, and not in her individual class) But, she sat through Primary's singing and sharing times, and never caused anyone any problems. However, I would get an ear full at home afterward. I told her that she just needed to bide her time and be patient until it was time for her to graduate from Primary, and that I still expected her to be respectful and participate with the lessons her leaders had planned. So, she did.
Good luck!
Remember...
... the Church is there to serve families. If there is an issue with your kiddos, it is within your stewardship to do what you feel is best for your children.
That being said, we have had similar problems in our family, for similar reasons, I'm sure, but also because we have two children with Asperger's. We just had to do a lot of praying, blessings, and deal-making!
I came to the conclusion that Primary, at least for our family, is a Core Institution that is supported and attended. We have had to sit our children down, and have them agree to certain attendance guidelines, and adjusted where our children have real issues.
We feel that as members of the LDS Church, we do need to teach our children how to follow the authority we recognize. So we need to sit down and express our beliefs to our children, and share our testimonies-- that is a Core Phase lesson we MUST share with our kids. Examining whether or not we support our church leaders should not be an issue for our children to change. Are we committed to these programs, to our beliefs, and to our testimonies or not? For our family, we are deeply committed to the institution of the Church, thus we support its programs, and encourage our children to do the same.
Just some of my random thoughts... :-)
Hugs,
Rachel Keppner
"ASPIRE to INSPIRE before you EXPIRE!"
Thank you, Rachel!
I needed to hear this. :) I appreciate your last two paragraphs especially. We are also deeply committed, and even though it is frustrating at times, we just go and do anyway. It's interesting you mention Asperger's because several people in my ward have expressed concerns that my son may have it. (?) Anyway, thanks for your response!
Sarah
Primary Attendance - long
Some thoughts:
First of all, I have been a Primary Chorister for a total of about 6-7 years. The older boys are nearly always a problem. I think it is a couple of reasons, in general. 1) their voices are sometimes just beginning to change and Primary songs are written HIGH! (even for me, a soprano, sometimes). 2) they don't always think it is "cool" to sing, it is girly stuff to them, often. Also, boys learn differently from girls, they need action and movement and silliness. Girls need pretty pictures and sweetness. Most Choristers are women who probably teach in the girls' preferred method - standing in one place, sweet pictures, lovely thoughts. Boys want goofiness and often people think that is irreverent in Primary. When I was the teacher the last stint (3 years) I had mostly boys in the Senior Primary group so I had to teach differently to them. I challenged them (I bet you can't stand up and sit down every time we say the word "I" in this song! - DO NOT sing the first rows' part - only sing when it is your turn or I will give you the evil eye!), I did physical challenges like knocking down milk cartons to choose the song, tossing bean bags into squares, rolling blocks with choices on it like sing standing on one foot or with your eyes closed, etc.., I had them dress as Captain Moroni or knights if the song lended itself to that (they loved anything with swords!). Go watch and see how singing time is run (if you are not already in there) and maybe make suggestions to the Chorister to teach to boys' learning styles more often.
If it is the coolness factor then you just need to wait for him to grow out of that phase. I have one boy I know who was in my first stint as Chorister and he NEVER sang (he and two other boys sat on the back row and whispered to each other the whole time). Now that he is about 16 he has decided to take singing lessons!
As far as church attendence in general I feel similarly to you guys in that 1) the Church SUPPORTS the family, and 2) we support the church programs.
When my oldest was about 6 or 7 he said he didn't like Primary. He was well enough behaved that we told him he had to come to church but he could sit on the couch in the foyer and read instead (obviously good books). This lasted maybe 3 months on and off. We let him know that we repsected his feelings about attending church and we wouldn't force him to do something he didn't feel like doing regarding religous observance (remember tthe 11th Article of Faith. I think, of allowing all men to worship how, where, or what they may?). But we also said that first of all, he wasn't old enough to stay home alone and secondly, going to church was something our family did together so we would like him to come with us, even if he were to be old enough not to. Eventually he decided to go back to class and that was that. We have no problems with our kids in this area now - in fact they get upset if we have to miss because of vacation or travel plans.
I also think, in a learning capacity, that church classes ARE conveyor belts. I learned this when I taught a class of about 6-8 kids. The oldest was born in January and at age 5 yor 6 you could give him the assignment to go home, read Daniel 13 and come back and give a report on it, and he would do it. The youngest was born in Spetember and had severe Down Sindrome, in between were a couple of rambunctious normal boys, a sweet girl, and a girl who had been abused and would put her head between her knees if you asked her a question. No way was I going to tailor the lesson to meet the needs of all these children!
I made a vow before I had children that my kids would not be attending church in order to learn anything about the gospel. They would already know the answers and class would just reinforce what we learned at home. So if they missed class they weren't missing anything academically.
As far as supporting the church, yes we attend our meetings regularly but the main one is Sacrament and then Priesthood and RS. I believe Sunday School is optional, since we are studying at hoime on our own. I also read somewhere that the Church instituted the auxiliary classes, such as Sunday School and YMIA because families were not teaching what they ought to at home. Perhaps some day they will do away with them agaian when families begin teaching what they ought to again.
Also, know that in our ward we have many, many special needs kids (my friend and I, who both have special needs kids, call it the Special Needs Ward). I understand having special needs kids and how that affects church attendance.
Bottom line is do what is most important to the needs of your family. What lessons do you want your children to take away from Church attendace? What are the most important ones? For me and my home we believe it is a love of the gospel. I firmly believe that Core lessons are best learned at home and in the family. For me church attendance, at least Primary Sharing Time or class time, would be optional at this phase in your kids' lives. Maybe they can attend with mom or dad in their classes as long as they are not disruptive. Maybe they will be bored enough in the boring adult classes to better appreciate singing and sharing time :o)
Just some thoights.
Jody
Make a Difference - Change the World
teaching children your core classic
Jody said: "I made a vow before I had children that my kids would not be attending church in order to learn anything about the gospel. They would already know the answers and class would just reinforce what we learned at home. So if they missed class they weren't missing anything academically."
I find it interesting that you made this commitment early. I read to my children from illustrated scriptures and studied the scriptures myself (which self-habit I started in Seminary) for all their lives, but didn't really stress learning the scriptures and songs at home until I started homeschooling when my eldest ds was 6. At that point I realized that most parents lean on the church to teach their children. The choristers and teachers were thrilled that my children knew their stuff. I understand better why some very conscientious parents feel that attending church is sometimes not useful (for a lot of reasons). But my opinion is that attending church is part of doing missionary work, and part of recognizing that others have faults, too. I have to be forgiving and tolerant, yet live my core classic myself without bending, forgiving myself as I strive to forgive others. Church only becomes optional for me when I am ill or when my children are ill. I have, however, taken children into the adult class with me in the past, and they show much more appreciation for their own classes afterwards!