Oops!
We just found out that the new changes to TJEdRefers generally to the concepts presented in the book A Thomas Jefferson Education, written by Dr. Oliver DeMille. We also have an Introduction to Thomas Jefferson Education available elsewhere on this site..org do not display correctly on older versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer, i.e. the one you are using right now. We are actively working to fix this problem, and we're sorry for any problems you encounter. Until we get things fixed, you may wish to update your copy of Internet Explorer to version 7 or download the free Firefox browser, since these browsers are known to work. Otherwise, keep trying back. We hope to have everything working correctly in a few days.
Sincerely,
Russell Keppner
TJEdRefers generally to the concepts presented in the book A Thomas Jefferson Education, written by Dr. Oliver DeMille. We also have an Introduction to Thomas Jefferson Education available elsewhere on this site..org Administrator
Re: Piano lessons
Lisa,
I have been teaching piano for about 16 years now. My philosophy has always been to never force students to learn anything they don't want to. But the reality is, that when you are taking lessons there will be requirements. Piano is a discipline and to do it well takes discipline.This is a skill for scholar phase. I have used TJED in my home for about 4 years and I truly believe in the phases of learning. Traditional piano lessons (in my opinion) don't really fit in with core phase. They could fit in with LOL phase, but only if the student really loves to learn it. Some children do and some don't. They are inspired by what they like and enjoy. My 16 year old daughter started learning piano when she was 8 years old. She played at the piano for a while and then I taught her to read the notes and count the music, because she wanted to. Once she learned the basics, she played what she liked. I also played the piano all of the time and we always have recordings of classical symphonic music and comtemporary piano music (Jim Brickman is my favorite) going. When she turned 13, she started begging for "real" piano lessons. I let her beg for a year and then I found an incredible Piano mentor for her. She is now seriously studying piano in the proper scholar phase of her life. She had to "catch up" in theory and technic, but after about a year she was doing beautifully. She would have hated lessons like this if she had started too early.
I am in a funny situation. I teach mostly public schooled children with parents who do not understand the phases of learning. I let parents know that I do not force the children to practice and I believe that they should play what they enjoy. I teach them basics and I give group lessons once a month to inspire them with composers and listening to beautiful music and learning some basic theory through games and application. Theory is just like Math, In fact it is math! I believe Dr. DeMille said Math could be learned in 80 hours? Basics are helpful and a teacher can make learning them really interesting. In my experience, I have taught theory over and over and they do not learn it until they want to. I watch for the zpd and then back off. Sometimes this means just skipping something or doing something else. If they hate it, I suggest that it isn't time for lessons or talk to the parent about finding new ways to inspire them.
I'm still revising and addressing this. I love the suggestions that have been given. Celestia, I will look into that resource in our libraries here! That is sooo interesting. In fact, I have decided to make this my educational application project for my 5 pillar certification.
Thank you
Melissa
Centerville, Ut
Re: Piano lessons
How do you teach piano TJEd?
If they are in Core or Love of Learning
You, not them.
Inspire, not require.
Classics not textbooks.
Music is a language, as is math.
Children need lots of natural context *not fake context), exposure to classics, opportunity to go to concerts, and opportunity to explore or experiment with music.
When music becomes a part of your life and they come to love the piano then they will want to learn the mechanics and will be more likely to submit to a piano mentor.
Suzuki method recognizes the developmental phases of learning. It is a natural tongue method of language acquisition applied to the language of music. Reading naturally comes after learning to hear and speak it.
Re: Piano lessons
I wondered about this for a couple of years and then came up with a solution that has really blessed my family. My children are 10, 8, 5 and 2 right now. The oldest started piano a few years ago with an excellent teacher. That teacher had to move on to other things and we found another and then my two oldest tried lessons with the new teacher. Not good. Talk about killing all desire and interest in piano, it lasted three months. Wow. I had to rethink how I was going to inspire, not require. Over last summer our favorite teacher was available to do something again. I gave her a copy of A Thomas Jefferson Education and a copy of The Spiritual Lives of Great Composers. I asked her to read them and create a class that was sharing her love and passion for music with my three oldest. I didn't want any assignments. The things we, but specifically she, have come up with are amazing. We had until August, but since she has enjoyed teaching the class we are still going strong. Just recently we met without the children and discussed what direction to go with the class. They meet every other week as a group to do an ongoing musical project and the other weeks she is teaching piano and flute to the oldest two children. However, we are not going through a book and learning piano the usual way. Because my oldest likes to plunk out melodies on the piano from ear, our teacher is going to teach her some chords to complement the melodies. Then she will teach her how to write the notation.
The other thing that has made an impact is me. I started teaching myself how to play the guitar a few months ago. I am really not good and can play three songs (at least they think I 'play' three songs). My kids think I am incredibly talented and think they can pick up any instrument and play too. It is funny, but also wonderful. They feel inspired greatly by my feeble attempts at learning to play an instrument.
So, with all that said. Maybe try finding someone you think would be a great music mentor for your kids. Have them read about the style of teaching you would like them to use. If they are open to it you might find some fabulous things happening. It's nice to have someone else involved with education in the family. I can't teach them how to play an instrument, but even if I could I think I would do it this way again. My word of caution is...if you expect to attend quarterly recitals and see weekly progress in proficiency in playing the piano you may have to readjust your expectations. For me it is about really loving music first, then loving the instrument, then loving to express with it. We are all about participatory music rather than performance music right now. None of my children are in the scholar phase around music, so I just have to keep that in mind when I write the checks
.
Re: Piano lessons
Mamadee,
I am so curious what sorts of musical projects your children are doing!!! I would love as much information on the actual activities as you would be willing to share. What does the teacher do? How does she share her love of music, etc.
Thanks for your post. It has really given me stuff to think about.
KELLY
Re: Piano lessons
Kelly-
We started last summer studying Vivaldi's The 4 Seasons. Our teacher helped the children SEE what was happening in the music. I always thought it was quite something if I could recognize the different instruments
. One night several weeks after our classes had begun we were at a concert in the park. It was an opera, all in Italian. My daughter leaned over at one point and said, "You can just feel how intent he is in making his point, they had that argument but now he is still telling us his side and how he is right...." I have not a clue what the words sung were. Not a clue. But she understood the emotion and made a story fit with that. When they listen to music they hear a cat chasing a mouse, leaves falling, people dancing, a drunk man staggering, etc. That's what studying Vivaldi did for them. Since then they have studied different musical eras, different instruments. One day I heard rap music coming from another room. This alarmed me, so I listened in. They were discussing the beat (it was an old and clean song...rare these days). Then I heard her talk to them about the messages that can be spread through music in a harmful way. There was more to it than that, but it was a safe first exposure and some great tools to work with.
My personal favorite is the music and lyrics they compose themselves. We have some wonderful and silly songs that are part of our family culture now. For Mother's Day they made me a dvd of each child performing a song they composed about a favorite memory with me. I never knew how wonderful that one evening of running errands was for my daughter
. Our teacher has her own loves of music and that is what she shares. I will encourage her to write down what she has done and hopefully I can share it in more detail.
At one point she gave them each a recorder and they learned some simple things to play...that was fun. She has used yarn in three different colors and each child chooses and instrument. They listen to a piece and when they hear their instrument they move around the room. The room turns into a big wonderful tangle of yarn as each instrument overlaps the last...they loved that. She has had them listen to a song and then draw what they hear. I have seen some fascinating drawings come from that exercise that teaches me things about the children I didn't know.
They studied the song Amazing Grace earlier this year when we were reading a book about William Wilberforce. When we studied the slavery years and the civil war she taught them African American spirituals and folk music. Then they studied the whole history of African American music up to this day (hence the rap).
Now they are beginning to do a long term project - a musical. They want to do something they can perform. I can't wait to see what they come up with. As I think of more things (or I should say remember) I will post them for you. I hope this is helpful.
Re: Piano lessons
Hi all,
First a brief intro. I live in Utah with my six children ages 13-1. I think a great TJED resource for piano lessons is Piano for Life. see pianoforlife.com. My public library even has the set. It's three videos in a set. Or you can get Piano for Quitters which is just one video and cheaper, which I bought. I have checked the Piano for Life out a few times and watched them. I took piano lessons for about six years as a youth and play decently but I never understood chords and what made a major scale major and a minor a minor. Then I watched the Piano for Quitters and finally understood. these videos are amazing. You can also get them in DVD form.
The producer/author/piano instructor, Mark Almond, tells a story that sounds just like what has happened in education with industrialization. Over a 100 years ago piano teachers taught piano with chords and students made beautiful music right away. He says they did not play simple John Thompson melodies. This whole way of teaching piano went by the wayside when publishing companies started cranking out primer piano books which sold. Sounds similar to the way that conveyor belt education replaced leadership education and textbooks replaced classics.
These videos are for an adult to use, and when I do them (we have a TV/VCR combo right by the piano to watch so we can see the fingering on the piano and then we can play the chords too) my two oldest, 13 and 11, feel inspired to learn and start watching and learning and ask me to help them. That's truly the key, I have to do it myself and they see me doing it and then do it on their own.
You can get piano for life from Timberdoodle, Great Christian Books, or Rainbow Resources.
A painless way to learn theory is through the computer software Music Ace. That's how my two oldest learned all their music theory. get from ldfr.com
Another great resource is Jon Schmidt's 67 Fun Songs. It has a method Jon has developed to eliminate the tediousness of learning note reading and keyboarding. He claims a student can be at a two year's worth of piano lessons note-reading level in 10 weeks! Go to jonschmidt.com and click on education and you can download the method for free. The method is also included in his 67 Fun Songs book. This is the book I would hand to a piano teacher if I were to hire one, I used it on my first two kids.
Enjoy your music making,
Celestia in layton, UT
Re: Piano lessons
Thank you for posting, Celestia! This is why I love this forum! Everybody has the same ultimate goal here and there are so many good ideas. I have needed this thread for a long time. I wish I was creative enough to come up with TJED principled methods and ideas on my own, but it's just not my strength. I really appreciate all the various ideas and suggestions you have all posted!
KELLY
Re: Piano lessons
I really enjoyed your post, mamadee. Especially this:
> The other thing that has made an impact is me. I
> started teaching myself how to play the guitar a
> few months ago. I am really not good and can play
> three songs (at least they think I 'play' three
> songs). My kids think I am incredibly talented
> and think they can pick up any instrument and play
> too. It is funny, but also wonderful. They feel
> inspired greatly by my feeble attempts at learning
> to play an instrument.
I think it's so humbling to realize how our kids see us sometimes, and that because of this, a little inspiring can go a long way. Or maybe it's not right to say that it's a little inspiring, but rather that to inspire, we don't have to excel at whatever we're attempting. We just have to do it.
Re: Piano lessons
If you listen to the Core and Love of Learning CDs (not in the written article), Rachel talks about how her kids do piano lessons. Rachel is a pianist herself- quite an excellent one- but she doesn't teach her kids piano. I thought that was interesting. I'll have to go back and listen to what she says, but I do know that they found someone (a George Wythe student I think) who would teach with a TJEd philosophy.
I've been teaching my kids as they ask. It's pretty haphazard right now. I think eventually I will find someone else to teach them so that they have someone to be accountable to besides me. I love playing the piano. BUT, I definitely had that phase in my life where I wasn't sure I wanted to continue. I knew my Mom expected me to continue so I didn't quit - and I'm grateful now. I had seasons where the only practice I got was my weekly half hour lesson...but both my mom and piano teacher perservered and I can now call myself a halfway decent pianist. With that background, I struggle finding a TJEd method that has accountability built in so that kids can't just be quitters when it gets a little rough. It's definitely a challenge!
I never learned all the theory involved because my piano teacher didn't know much theory. I took lessons for 6 years and my dad took them for one. But he studied the theory and I learned to play - we have different strengths. It's pretty interesting. NOW I'm much more interested in theory. I think theory can wait. You can learn to play without learning theory. I have enough of a love of music that I'll never stop playing - but am considering finding my own teacher to help me learn the music theory part and better my skills. THAT is probably very TJEd - I'm getting to it when it is important for me to know it.
Re: Piano lessons
I don't have too many answers -- I'm starting out with this myself. Last weekend, my 7 yo asked if I could teach him a certain song on the piano. He has spent time now and then fiddling around on it, making up little songs and such. Now, I don't know a whole lot about piano playing, but it seems to me like it's something that a lot of people say you need to start off right/in a certain way, to develop good habits and all that. We had recently watched a couple of videos that had stuff about piano lessons in it -- one in particular was a Franklin video, where he wanted to learn the piano and was taking lessons from his grandmother, as was one of his friends. Franklin didn't want to learn the scales, and he played a song by ear and decided that he didn't need to practise the scales to learn how to play. Then when he was coming for one of his lessons, he heard someone playing inside, and thought it was his grandmother, but it was actually the other student -- who had been coming every day, practising diligently, and doing the scales. Franklin was impressed and worked hard to catch up. Anyway, I don't know if that is the "right" course or not, but it's an example of what I worry about -- finding the balance between not requiring, and not setting up bad habits. So, I found a few free, printable lessons online to start us off. He really took to them, and wanted to do them right away in kidschool time once we finished our opening reading stuff. Not too far into the second lesson, he started just playing the practise "songs" and ignoring the lesson. I'm thinking that maybe, in a few days, I'll sit down with him and just look back over the lesson he is on, and see if he has any questions.
I would like for him to have a teacher other than me for piano, before too long. I think the trick will be finding someone who is a mentor rather than a conveyor-belt worker. I try to make sure that I have something that I'm practising on -- luckily for me, it happens to be the piano, so it's easy for ds to see that I practise too. Also, in our church's primary classes, they are offering to let children who play the piano be the "accompaniment" for songs they know, so he gets a chance to see others using the skill he's working to acquire. I guess for me, with everything, it comes down to "Inspire, not Require" going hand-in-hand with "You, not Them." Musical interest runs in both of our families, so that helps. I try to make an effort to include it in our daily lives. We start our school time off with singing, and as much as possible -- even if it's just the melody -- I accompany. We have weekly family nights which also include singing, and again, dh or I try to accompany. We have a bin of musical instruments which get a lot of use.
For the theory side of things, I know a little musical theory, and I'm working on learning more. But I think that's one of the things that will come along and interest the kids as it is needed. It's not something I would teach just so they could answer the teacher's questions or fill in answers in the books. I enjoyed learning musical theory in school, and I found it gave me more understanding of the music we were playing (I played in the concert band, not the piano) as well as more... power? flexibility? ... if I wanted to work *with* music, rather than just play it. Some of our assignments in my high school class were to compose music, or transpose parts for our instrument, that kind of thing. It was fun working with it, and that helped motivate me to learn the theory, and gave it context. But if I were just playing the piano, and only learning pieces to play them, I don't think I would be as motivated to learn the theory.